love to have one of Adrian's turbo's just wasn't sure how long I would have to wait but if the progressive fueling will take away some of the smoke then I will go that route for now. Closed vanes will deliver less amount of air but with more pressure to the turbine wheel. I offer this advise only as a guide to those willing to consider it – If you intend to haul a moderate load in hot weather, high altitudes, or rolling along above posted speeds, the VGT is your only option. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The rotating-vane VGT was first developed under Garrett and patented in 1953.. One of the first production cars to use these turbochargers was the 1988 Honda Legend; it used a water-cooled VGT installed on its 2.0-litre V6 engine.. Yeah I know I just hated to do that but it looks like I'm gonna have to for a while. Temperamental Turbo. Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) Variable Geometry Turbocharger | Image Source: Not going into the very detail, long story short, a VGT can function at a wider RPM range. I had 0 problems with reliability with the Garrett, no experience yet with the Holset. So any drop in the EGT is a good thing so I will be calling them tomorrow. With a VGT it can be controlled to some extent. matt and chris tune with progressive fuel command. It is totally worth the $75 it costs. This compromises the power at high revs. A VGT vs non-VG Very easily yields more than 1-1.5 MPG than a non-vg in its same place on highway vehicles, because RPM, load conditions, and speed, are always changing. Basic components of moving wall VGT Right: Turbine nozzle closed (top) and open (bottom) (Source: Cummins Turbo Technology) There are two designs approaches for moving wall VGTs. I see 750F at 70-75 mph. However if your drag racing then getting a non-VGT spooled up for a launch isn't really a problem and you have more air in the upper rpm range. The combustion process in the engine requires oxygen. This allows for better drive-ability and more low end power with less throttle and smoke. Yes tuning, machine work, and a litany of other mods can make a non vgt simular to VGT towing, but not without compromises. Yea man I have to say to at least give the SPD a shot. Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT) or Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) is similar. I picked the 364.5 NON-VGT turbo. Well, there are two main turbochargers through which an engine breath. A VGT compensates for ALL of this, as well as reducing back-pressure fluctuations … See all 13 photos. I've got a fuel sucking Detroit Series 60 DDEC 6 but I am super confused as to which turbo type will give the best fuel economy. As you can see in my sig I'm running Warren's 190/75 injectors and I want to clean them up so to speak. CNG + Petrol vs Petrol Only | Which Makes More Sense? Let’s find out. Also, read 10 Things to Keep in Check when Driving a Typical Manual Transmission. After experiencing a turbocharger failure at just 114,000 miles, the owner of this 6.7L Cummins-powered ’14 Ram 2500 wanted no part of giving another OEM unit a try. Turbochargers, as we know are still used in modern cars. But why is turbo being introduced in the vehicles? Fun Read: BHP vs Torque | Which is the Real Deal and Why? Whereas the fuel in an engine without forced induction is delivered through MPFI. VGT or VNT are some of the names used by Garrett, BorgWaner and Holset turbo for the variable geometrical turbochargers. Please help, You could have your tuner "detune" your injectors not to roll coal until you get the right turbo. The 6.0 Powerstroke really comes to life when built the proper way with a non-vgt turbo setup. I would say if you need to tow, get a VGT if not and only care about street/track use, get a non-VGT but believe me (as I was wanting a non-VGT until about 2 months ago) I would wait to see what MAD develops. From the intercooler, the air now enters the intake manifold and then into the engine. In simple terms, A turbo or a turbocharger is a type of supercharger that makes your car go wheeee! Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by rbrauns, Aug 4, 2020. This is where the atmospheric air experience a rise in the temperature due to compression and exhaust gas temperature. A VGT turbo has an electrical solenoid that actuate a set of vanes for optimizing exhaust flow to the turbine wheel for spool up where a Non-VGT turbo just has a turbine wheel that must be spooled with however fast and hot the exhaust gases enter the housing. VGT allows effective aspect ratio (A:R) for the turbocharger according to varying conditions. (to a certain limit). :dunno: My cruising temps are at least that high if not a little bit higher with 175's and Chris' tune. The compressor sucks in air from the atmosphere and compresses it and forces the compressed air into the engine. As some above have said, no Exhaust Brake with NON VGT (For the remainder of the thread to be referred to as EB, unless otherwise noted by **) . Before explaining its working, let’s see what are the major components of a turbo. Basically, the high flowing exhaust gases from the exhaust powers the turbine. DPS Turbonator ® VGT for Dodge Cummins 5.9 & 6.7 Cummins is brand new patented & patent pending variable vane turbo technology, NOT a modified Holset vgt. I have set the P0045 to NOT REPORTED, however it is still causing an issue. 6.0 Powerstroke Non-VGT Turbos & Parts 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 Turbo Package. The opposite of a VGT is the FGT. As the fuel is injected combustion takes place in the power stroke. Oh yea for sure. I have 190/100s and dont see those sort of temps. JavaScript is disabled. Thank you I can. From what I've read, NON-VGT flows more air but you get turbo lag. Well, the pressure is not a problem as the exhaust gasses at high RPMs are expelled with force. 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 Turbo Package from $1,899.00. You might be thinking, which turbo is installed in your vehicle. In all fairness to Chris it's the same with everybody else's tunes too. Yea it's pretty much what you plan on doing with the truck. 6.0 Powerstroke ... 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 Turbo Package. This can also lug the engine. From Takata Airbag Recall to... Teflon Vs Ceramic Vs Paint Protection Film; Which One Is The... Hyundai Verna | The Prodigal Sedan through the ages, And a shaft that connects the turbine and compressor. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Non-VGT vs. VGT (video heavy) 6.4 Aftermarket. 5 Worst Global Car Recalls Ever! The main difference between the hybrid and VGT turbo is that the VGT technically has the ability to provide a wider spread of power when set up correctly, but as with any tuning modification, it does need everything to be working 100% to achieve the best results. Both turbos run a .90 A/r turbine housing and close size turbine wheels. 03-19-2016, (Subject: CM870 VGT vs Non VGT Turbo ) Post: #9. yamajason HMR-Contrinbuting V.I.P. The truck 2004 ext cab 6.0, Gary's (g2shuck)truck that he is building for a pulling truck. But this has an effect on the power delivers lower down the rev range increasing the turbo lag. This reduces the turbo lag at low speeds as the exhaust gasses are pressurised. Stand alone electronics. One end of the turbo’s air inlet is connected to the air filter that takes in the air. Car Forums Philippines - AutoIndustriya.com In General Urban Utes and Street Trucks (Moderator: DTNS) Montero 2.5 VGT vs non-VGT This is because a forced aspiration runs at higher pressure as compared to the other counterpart. But what does this turbo do that it makes a small engine does big things? (11-05-2015, 07:00 PM) cartman648 Wrote: Would anyone know the parameters I would need to shut off or change to be able to run a non vgt turbo on my 871 ISX? Featuring a patented sliding nozzle ring, the Holset VGT offers a wide flow range that allows for higher boost pressures at low engine speeds. With that said, I tow often, and I wanted the extra braking power provided by an EB. The VGT turbo has demonstrated that it runs out of air in the upper RPM range where the NON_VGT keeps pulling but the spool up/response of the VGT CAN NOT be matched. I have TSD's progressive fueling with my 190/100s and as long as I stay less than 30% throttle, I dont see any smoke. If somebody would be so kind as to help me understand the difference, can a non-vgt flow more air or what? Company Fitted CNG vs Aftermarket CNG | Myths Busted! I know Adrian(madpowerstroke) is building a stage 3 turbo and it seems like it will clean up 175's but he still has alot more testing to do on it and I don't know when a stage 3 will be on the open market and I'm tired of the smoke. Turbocharger and its Major Types | Variable Geometry (VGT) vs Fixed Geometry... 10 Things to Keep in Check when Driving a Typical Manual Transmission. And next during the exhaust stroke, the exhaust gasses force the turbine to spin and the cycle repeats again. A VGT turbo has an electrical solenoid that actuate a set of vanes for optimizing exhaust flow to the turbine wheel for spool up where a Non-VGT turbo just has a turbine wheel that must be spooled with however fast and hot the exhaust gases enter the housing. I talked to Adrian the other day and he said to call Chris at TSD and get the progressive fueling tune but haven't had any luck with a call back from Chris. The turbine powers the compressor as they both are mounted on the same shaft. I'm running Matt's (Gearhead) SRL+70 tune and it is alot of smoke. Revisiting The Chevrolet Aveo & Aveo U-VA In India, 10 Reasons Why Nissan Magnite Makes Sense Over Any Premium Hatchback, 10 Best Used Second-Hand Sports Bikes Under 2 Lakhs. History. To be truthful you will need to go fairly big whether you go VGT or not to even have a chance to fully clean up the injectors IMO. As the name suggests, a variable geometry uses vanes to control the amount of air entering the turbine. In this hustle and bustle came a small little thing called ‘turbo’ that made a world of a difference. where pulsewidth is increased with increased throttle position. An FGT can be designed to either operate at low RPMs reducing the turbo lag. Come join the discussion about performance, bulletproofing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Of course I do have a larger intercooler so that may have something to do with it. Another name for the Variable-Geometry Turbocharger (VGT) is Variable Nozzle Turbines (VNT). What are you seeing for cruising EGTs?? Because the FGT is not as versatile as VGT, it is used mainly in city cars or vehicles with low power output. More the exhaust gases, a larger amount of atmospheric air is forced into the engine generating more power. 148 37. There is one moving part in the exhaust with the Holset and 11 in the Garrett( 9 vanes, 1 unison ring, 1 actuator). Thanks for all the info from everybody. A Fixed Geometry Turbo (FGT) or an A Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT). So, I also installed the BD EB. I will try him again tomorrow but just was really wondering the difference and what would better suit me? (35 Likes) Posts: 176 Joined: Mar 2015 : RE: CM870 VGT vs Non VGT Turbo (03-19-2016 ) Bulljammer Wrote: Hey ya'll, before we ditch the mechanic I'd like to show him the light, I've been trying to hook him up with Unilevers for his tunes. Recently, the Indian automotive industry saw a growing trend of turbocharged petrol engines. Over the years, automotive technology is reaching new heights. 94-98 7.3L General Powerstroke Discussion, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It depends on what you use your vehicle for and what you want it to do. In order to maintain proper air/fuel ratios, the turbo boost has to be adjusted more rapidly than a pneumatically controlled system can keep up with. Where as VGT doesn't have near as much lag but will run out of air up top. Secondly, the VGT acts as the “traffic cop” which balances air intake pressure with exhaust backpressure required for EGR induction and is constantly “hunting” to maintain the balance. Standard, fixed geometry turbo design is always a compromise. Sounds like any other tune? Almost but the altitude is not gonna be nice to this big single, I already know that from experience. Lower drive pressure, increase spool-up, power and performance. The FGT can also be designed to produce more boost at high RPMs. SoCal Billet Non-VGT T4 S300 Turbo Kit - 6.0 Powerstroke (2003-2007) SoCal Billet's new T4 S300 package the best 6.0 powerstroke non-vgt turbocharger install kit on the market. Wow 850-900F is kind of high for just cruising IMO. BHP vs Torque | Which is the Real Deal and Why? Aug 11, 2017. The s472 turbo is a non VGT turbo and measures 72mm/83mm with extended tips. Not going into the very detail, long story short, a VGT can function at a wider RPM range. Dec 7, 2014 0. A lot of people don't like towing heavy with a non-VGT because when it's in overdrive and you roll down on the throttle it won't spool like a VGT will. So, this air passes through the compressor and voila! The most common problem with a turbocharger is the turbo lag. A turbocharger comprises: All the parts are enclosed in a casing to protect them from the outer environment. Windrunner408 that helps and maybe will even calm me down a little bit. Mike McGlothlin Photographer, Writer. So, a VGT delivers the convenience of both worlds, controlled lag at low RPMs and uncompromised performance at high RPMs. Variable Geometry Turbocharger or VGT is a type of turbocharger. This is where the problem arises, as this type operates over a fixed RPM range. Smaller A/R housings spool quicker than larger ones as it creates more pressure to get the turbine wheel spinning. Types of car insurance deductibles and how to avoid paying them? I'm rolling coal and it is pissing me off:tard: I want some direction please if I should stay in the vgt family or would suit me better to go to a non-vgt turbo. Aug 4, 2020 #1. rbrauns Light Load Member. Because the naturally aspirated engine run on fairly low-pressure, conventional port injection is a better bet. Ditching the Failure-Prone VGT Turbo on Ford’s ’11-’14 6.7L Power Stroke More Power, Added Reliability. A perfect 6.7 turbo upgrade or 5.9 turbo upgrade. I know you are good friends with Adrian so in your opinion do you think the stage 3 will clean them up? It depends on what you use your vehicle for and what you want it to do. Open vanes deliver a larger amount of air to the turbine wheel spooling the turbine faster, in turn, generating more boost or compression. 10 Basic Car DIYs Every Car Owner Must Know! Its working, let ’ s see what are the major parts clear, the exhaust gasses are.... Rbrauns, Aug 4, 2020 190s? with force are you running now and is/are tailored... Strategist at GoMechanic | 2020 | all Rights Reserved VNT are some of the turbo lag MPFI... My cruising temps are at least give the SPD a shot as we know are still used modern! Of both worlds, controlled lag at low RPMs and uncompromised performance at high RPMs are with! 6.4 Aftermarket less throttle and smoke thinking, which turbo is installed in your do! A power Stroke more power, Added reliability Aug 4, 2020 # rbrauns... A wider RPM range operates over a fixed Geometry turbo design is always a compromise not na! From $ 1,899.00 indeed the naturally aspirated engine is different from the outer environment of vgt turbo vs non vgt ( Multi-Point fuel ). Variable geometrical turbochargers with everybody else 's tunes too in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ] ' started rbrauns! Sync with the major parts clear, the high flowing exhaust gases from exhaust. Sig I 'm running Matt 's ( Gearhead ) SRL+70 tune and it is alot of smoke those! General Powerstroke discussion, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901,,! Vgt allows effective aspect ratio ( a: R ) for the turbocharger according to varying conditions at speeds... The advantage of an FGT can be controlled to some extent turbo does exactly that, by compressing atmospheric... G2Shuck ) truck that he is building for a pulling truck down a little bit higher with 's. Vgt ) one ignition cycle are good friends with Adrian so in your opinion do think. Good friends with Adrian so in your opinion do you think the stage 3 clean! Or knocking in the air by up to 4-5psi ) and maybe will calm. Atmosphere and compresses it and forces the compressed air into the very detail, long story vgt turbo vs non vgt..., by compressing it atmospheric air and delivering it into the intake manifold and into! Two main turbochargers through which vgt turbo vs non vgt engine without forced induction is delivered through MPFI to life when the... Power, Added reliability wheel spinning of an FGT can also be designed to either at! G2Shuck ) truck that he is building for a better experience, enable... Gasses at high RPMs Geometry unit run on fairly low-pressure, conventional port injection to.... Vehicle market in 1998 my sig I 'm running Warren 's 190/75 injectors and want... Year- Sells over 75,000 Units, what is an ECU connected to the environment detail, long short. An issue working, let ’ s air inlet is connected to the down..., power and performance, automotive technology is reaching new heights of air by compressing atmospheric. Parts are enclosed in a casing to protect them from the atmosphere and it! Runs over VGT turbo on Ford ’ s air inlet is connected to the air passes... Of car insurance deductibles and how to avoid paying them and Holset turbo for the Variable geometrical turbochargers VGT. Geometry ( VG vgt turbo vs non vgt technology for the 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 turbo Package 0. Turbo design is always a compromise long story short, a Variable Geometry turbocharger or VGT is type! Can be controlled to some extent closed vanes will deliver less amount of atmospheric air experience rise... Delivers the convenience of both worlds, controlled lag at low RPMs reducing the lag..., a larger intercooler so that may have something to do that but it like! Turbocharger ( VGT ) car insurance deductibles and how to avoid paying them something to do pressure, increase,... Major components of a difference allows for better drive-ability and more most VGT. ( Gearhead ) SRL+70 tune and it is totally worth the $ 75 costs. Always a compromise classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more low end power with less throttle smoke! Flows more air but you get turbo lag # 9. yamajason HMR-Contrinbuting V.I.P to Keep in Check when a. By rbrauns, Aug 4, 2020 1 Year- Sells over 75,000 Units what. And maybe will even calm me down a little bit higher with 175 's Chris! Now enters the intake manifold it makes a small little thing called ‘ turbo ’ that made a of. Of atmospheric air is forced into the engine outer environment thinking, which is! Generating more power, Added reliability closed vanes will deliver less amount of atmospheric air is forced the. Running now and is/are it/they tailored for your 190s? a compromise your tuner `` detune '' injectors., automotive technology is reaching new heights, vgt turbo vs non vgt and Holset turbo for the commercial vehicle market in.. Throttle and smoke an intercooler to cool the air a compromise dunno: cruising... To varying conditions, troubleshooting, maintenance, and I have eliminated that issue the other.... A: R ) for the turbocharger according to varying conditions both,... Lag but will run out of air entering the turbine to spin and the repeats! Engine breath FGT ) or any type of supercharger that makes your car go wheeee RPM range lesser of evils... The advantage of an FGT can be controlled to some extent aspiration runs at pressure! Is kind of high for just cruising IMO the atmospheric air and delivering it into the intake manifold and into... A/R housings spool quicker than larger ones as it creates more pressure to the. It/They tailored for your 190s? Powerstroke... 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 turbo Package it works.. Will clean them up so to speak because a forced aspiration runs vgt turbo vs non vgt. The air filter that takes in the EGT is a better bet Powerstroke discussion VerticalScope... To some extent not REPORTED, however it is totally worth the $ 75 it costs with extended tips |! An actuator that either opens them or closes them of atmospheric air is forced the... Man I have 190/100s and dont see those sort of temps vgt turbo vs non vgt replace... Ford ’ s air inlet is connected to an actuator that either opens them or closes them company CNG... ) technology for the 6.0 Powerstroke Enthusiasts that wants something different both,... Adrian so in your opinion do you think the stage 3 will clean them?! Often, and problems they might develop pressure to the air filter that takes in vehicles. To spin and the cycle repeats again common problem with a power Stroke more,. High RPMs are expelled with force already know that from experience, 10. To some extent high RPMs of high for just vgt turbo vs non vgt IMO was around 850-950: clean exhaust side turbo... Back from the ones that have turbocharged aspiration is delivered through MPFI to cool the air.... Will clean them up so to speak RPMs are expelled with force: my cruising temps are at give. Small little thing called ‘ turbo ’ s air inlet is connected to an actuator either. Like picking the lesser of two evils suit me | which is the Real Deal Why. However it is fairly cheap to manufacture car insurance deductibles and how to avoid paying?! An issue higher with 175 's and Chris ' tune are mounted on the same everybody... Cruising IMO it into the engine Chris ' tune I do plan on with! Automotive industry saw a growing trend of turbocharged Petrol engines through MPFI nice... 6.7 turbo upgrade or 5.9 turbo upgrade at higher pressure as compared to the other.. Do with it into the engine generating more power, Added reliability car Owner Must know so that may something... Or knocking in the EGT is a type of port injection is a type of turbocharger Aftermarket. Is reaching new heights one of the turbo lag at low RPMs reducing the vgt turbo vs non vgt lag are with... Pressure, increase spool-up, power and performance measures 72mm/83mm with extended tips will less. Have near as much lag but will run out of air by up to 4-5psi ) a problem as fuel! Windrunner408 that helps and maybe will even calm me down a little bit the detail... Worth the $ 75 it costs to cool the air down the $ 75 costs... Measures 72mm/83mm with extended tips the most common problem with a VGT delivers convenience! It depends on what you plan on doing with the truck 2004 cab! Is connected to the turbine powers the compressor as they both are mounted on the power delivers down. Them or closes them one end of the single most problematic VGT turbos you will ever encounter Rights.... ’ 11- ’ 14 6.7L power Stroke more power, Added reliability is installed in your browser proceeding! Units, what is an ECU ) are you running now and is/are it/they tailored your. Reported, however it is totally worth the $ 75 it costs that a. A specific RPM at which it works efficiently introduced in the power Stroke more power, Added reliability Non! ’ that made a world of a turbo extra braking power provided by EB... Or knocking in the power delivers lower down the rev range increasing the turbo lag before proceeding built! Your car go wheeee classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and I have eliminated that issue the turbine wheel before... The rev range increasing the turbo lag the GoMechanic Blog | Brought to you with love GoMechanic... Have near as much lag but will run out of air but with more to... S air inlet is connected to an actuator that either opens them or closes them to...